John Wall is building himself quite the rep heading into the season. It started with the drawn out recruitment process, which saw Wall fashion himself the next superstar/prima-donna by flirting with as many as eight schools (and the NBA) before settling on Kentucky.
Then came along these two videos from some UK scrimmage, where (if you have the time to watch them) you will see Wall do some pretty impressive stuff.
But nothing has been quite as impressive as this.
Wall is playing in the Greater North Carolina Pro-Am, which is one of the best summer leagues in the country. He played against a team with Jerry Stackhouse on it Friday night.
I think Stack knows who Wall is now...
Another angle of it:
That's pretty vicious. To his credit, Stack didn't take the tape.
Sunday, August 9, 2009
Jerry Stackhouse, meet John Wall |
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31 comments:
My basketball career consisted of a few years of varsity at a Connecticut prep school. Needless to say, there was very little (none) dunking.
So, can somebody please explain to me why getting dunked on is such a big deal? Seriously.
In most cases, the dunkee is just a help defender who is being asked to clean up somebody else's mess. By the time the defender is beat off the dribble, the offensive player is off towards the basket, and there's nothing the help defender can do, anyway.
If anybody should be embarrassed, it's the man defender who got crossed up, leading to the easy bucket.
Thanks.
I agree! Basketball is a team game and those who are in the media focus on dunking way to much! They are appealing to those casual watchers of the game and not the true fans of basketball! Stop it! You are showing your ignorance and lack of knowledge when focusing on such trivial parts to a complex game!
Stack is a good player who understands basketball. That is why he ended up under the basket trying to help out a fellow teammate. Maybe we should applaude him for putting himself in a position to help a teammate!
It was a good dunk no doubt.
It happens but it's not a big deal. When he scores 20, hold a legitimate scorer to under 10 and then dunks on him. That's when I'll take notice!
He got a step ahead of player and dunked big deal!
When i see him with 20-30 points , 15 rebounds and i see him blocking a shots or setting screens! he is just another guy with leaping abilities or flashy moves that dont win championships! Teamwork does!
Ok guys.... hear me out. Comparable to the home run in baseball, interception in football and goal in hockey; the dunk is the one act of individual skill that receives great attention and rightfully so. I agree you dont sign him to a contract or make him the collegiate player of the year but lets not take away from the art of the dunk.
The kid caught stack at a bad defensive angle but the camera happen to be in the right place at the right time... such is life
this is dumb stack didnt get embarrased. john wall just did what 90 percent of NBA players do. Suck an egg
He didnt dunk on stackhouse... he actually dunked on the guy trying to cover him the he left in the dust...
I expected to see a bunch of "oh yeah!" posts but was happily awed to see people asking the same question I had. A generic dunk is arguably just slightly less skillful than a lay-up, but if Wall had done the exact same thing and pitched the ball into the net instead of pushing it down, there'd be no commentary on the shot. The skill is in making the opening, getting to the hoop and making the shot.
It all seems to be bravado to me, bordering on a Freudian thing. It's like all the skill in basketball isn't enough on its own to draw people to the sport but if we can add an in-your-face dimension, personified in a shot then...whoa, now that's cool.
Whatever.
"It all seems to be bravado to me, bordering on a Freudian thing"
that's right you gotta remmeber though, most of the "peoples" who are impressed by such things don't even know what Freudian is.
Just a question...have ANY of the people that have put a post on this wall EVER played college or pro ball...and if so...even had anything close to enough athletic ability to touch the rim???...just curious...
Why anybody at Yahoo found this to be worthy of front page treatment speaks volumes about how they make their choices.
They made a game once with a title that described it perfectly: "Trivial Pursuit."
C'mon folks, there was nothing of any greater news value than this?
What was the bigger dunk, John Wall over Jerry Stackhouse, or Yahoo over itself for publishing such a thing on the lead page?
To the anonymous poster inquiring about our basketball credentials . . .
I'll take your bait. As I mentioned in the original post, I played high school basketball. I was an All-Star in our small league, but wasn't close to good enough to play in college (especially since I went to Wake Forest during the Tim Duncan years!)
I'm not sure why you're asking the question. I hope you're not trying to make the point that college and pro ballers are the only ones with valid opinions in this debate. That would be stupid.
The impressive thing about this dunk isn't just that Wall threw down over an NBA star. Watch the second angle, Wall is five feet behind the three point line, manages to get his defender to jump at him like he is going to pull-up, uses one crossover dribble and gets all the way to the rim where he just happens to put a vicious dunk down on Stack (who tried to block it).
And I agree with all the posts above that dunking is not what makes basketball a beautiful game, just like a safety crushing a receiver going across the middle doesn't make football the quintessential team game.
But the sheer athleticism required for Wall not only to dunk from where he did, but to dunk on an NBA player is off the charts.
And that is why people love watching dunks.
Anyone can hit a three pointer, anyone can make the extra pass to an open shooter, anyone can lead a break. But it takes a special kind of athlete to do what Wall did.
Dauster,
I don't think anybody disagrees with you that the dunk is an exhilarating display of athleticism.
However, I think we all feel that the whole "Oooooh daaaamn! He got dunked on!!!" reaction is unwarranted.
U dont think a college ball player dunking on an NBA player is a big deal? ok its so wat if its not a BIG deal but its still some sort of deal. I always thought someone getting dunked on was great to watch(it actually happened at some of my high school basketball games). AND its a COLLEGE PLAYER up against an NBA PLAYER c'mon guys
College player dunking an NBA players means nothing. They are just the next crop of players who will be NBA players dunking on other NBA players. Its the cycle of life.
For those of you that think college and NBA basketball are even closely related are wrong. The NBA game is entertainment. The rules are set up that way. NBA is $!!!!! and the rules allow for the dunks to take place. In college hoops there are no defensive restriction, therefore, college teams are allowed to take away top players ie.. double team off the ball or diamond and 1. When a player scores big in college it is a big deal.
NBA is entertainment, great individual athletic entertainment, but entertainment none the less. College is a team sport at its purist level and should be given its credit.
And by the way dunking isn't a hard thing to do if your 6'6" with a wing span of 6'10" - that puts your reach at 8'3" that means a 21 inch vert gets you to the rim. A running vert of 30 inches any high school athlete can do. The timing is the important part and if you catch someone flat footed lookout!
Basketball enthusiast regardless of the level!!!
Several physical skills should be, and mostly are, all considered by knowledgeable coaches in recruiting and drafting players. Some of the most important:
1) Quickness/speed,
2) Length (as opposed to height; includes wingspan. Note most undersized NBA players have long arms and hands, e.g., John Stockton). Size of hands also important.
3)Shooting expertise (puts ball in the hole,
4)Strength,
5)Vision (proven passing ability),
6)Toughness (physical and mental), and
7)Leaping ability
In this writer's opinion leaping and dunking ability are the least important in assessing physical talent and usually serve as an important differentiator only if the basketball player is superior in most or all of the preceding areas...
For example, compare most young players who can jump through the roof to a young Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson or Larry Bird; none of these guys were great or even average NBA leapers. He's not going to be a superior player to these guys unless he is equal or superior in most if not all of these other skill/talent areas, but he will occasionally render some spectacular dunking footage, which is fun to watch sometimes, but greatly overrated to basketball purists.
The foregoing holds true for predicting success / winning basketball players, at all levels.
Its not a big deal about the dunk, but Stackhouse should have made a better play at the ball... If you notice the help rotation was already in position, it was just a lack of effort on stacks part...
Walls would have made the shot even if it was a lay-up.
Steve,
I completely agree with your analysis, but Charles Barkley was an amazing leaper at Auburn and especially when he played for the 6-ers. His vertical was as good as any in the NBA, single leg jumping was never his strong point and the NBA, at that time, didn't allow any hand checking which allowed single foot jumpers to excel. That is why we see those single footed jumpers on all the highlight reels from that era. Also, he was only 6'6". check out some of his blocks and dunks on youtube! Amazing!!!
Coach,
I do stand (no pun) corrected. I was kind of looking for such a comment...but partially in my defense, I saw a very young and heavy Barkley in college have difficulty (relatively) twice with two 6'8" all SEC forwards who could not jump well ....Ronnie Williams at FL and Jeff Turner at Vandy. Relvant to some preceding comments here: Turner played limited role in long NBA career; Williams led SEC in scoring and rebounding, or close to that, and NBA had no interest.....
Thanks!
Sounds like comments from people who have been dunked on! It's the competitiveness in the sport in which the dunk is telling the other person "no way, am I going to let you win and this is how I will show you I am very serious about it. The ball belongs in my basket....DUNK!!!"
that move was the real thing we should be in awe of. that was disgusting
Look at Dream Team photos. Chuck is considerably shorter (icnh to inch and a half) than everyone than Stockton.
He's 6'-5" at best when he's a bit tall.
And the thing no one is talking about is Wall's tude post-dunk. Young legs have ups. It's a biological rule. Why celebrate something this mundane if it happens every summer league? ( And it does) Show me college/NBA production or give me baseball passes and keeping "your-man-guarded-PPG" somewhere around -2 to -5 for me to be impressed.
Dunk wasn't really all that spectacular. He had a running start on Stackhouse and Stack was essentially flatfooted...everybody knows that spells 'advantage.' I was more impressed by the move he made to get by the first defender. And the young man needs to learn to act like he's been there before. If he had met Jerry Stackhouse at the same youthful age that he is right now, it would've been a whole different story. I love a good dunk, but I hit 'play' expecting this to be along the same caliber as John Starks posterizing 3 Chicago Bulls, all with a huge height advantage, and one with the initials M.J.
Do any of you guys think you can do it? I dont think so. Quit hatin on a guy thats got talent. That was pretty impressive.
bleeding blue,
Yes, I have dunked on people and yes I have been dunked on. If you play competitive basketball it will happen. Not as big a deal as you think it is!
I hate people who try to undermine my dog's shine. First off none of you have probably ever been skilled enough as a basketball player to compete with high level competition or even touch the rim. I agree the dunk wasnt a HUGE deal but in the culture of street basketball or basketball period it is a big deal. I used to play ball at a high level( until i tore my knee twice in COLLEGIATE PLAY) and wall demostrated a very high level of skill to even alter his angle of attack to the rim to avoid stackhouse from blocking the shot, which he actually came close to doing. Ive played with wall in person and dude can ball. He banged on stackhouse, it happens.
watts,
It is funny that you mention streetball? I played in the WBL (world basketball league) in Atlanta in the late 80's and early 90's known as the NDBL today! The birth of street ball (The idea for the tv show) started in the south Atlanta gym Run-N-Shoot.
I used to watch hot sauce and the gang in the gym for hours. Very rarely did any of these guys ever actually play a game of hoops. They spent hours seeing who could create a unique move on each other. Going OOHH No he didn't!
Street Ball is a stage show designed to entertain children and people who have never even dribbled a basketball. For you to say street ball is part of our basketball culture shows your educational aptitude for basketball. Please refrain from using street ball in a real basketball discussion and save that for your American Idol and Survivor discussions, or those "you should have seen me before I blew my knee out" talks with the youngsters in middle school.
And to say that basketball culture is somehow intertwined with the street ball culture is absurd. Please stop and think before you leave such an ignorant comment on a chat board that obviously understands the game of HOOPS!!!!
After reading all of the comments and being a basketball player myself I would like to add the following.
1. Street basketball is apart of basketball culture like it or not. The original format of street hoops was not just flash anyway. It was to win just like pro ball. The only difference was the creative freedom to complete plays. Today it's been watered down to flashy moves and nicknames. Lets not be quick to forget baskebtalls history. Dr. J (Julius Erving) is one of basketballs greatest pro players...and even more so as a street legend. All of the progression you see happening with new moves in the pros always starts at the street level first as the pros are a multi billion dollar business that want the sure thing and don't want to risk the flash costing games unless its a sure thing. You'll start to see more flash in the pros as the game evolves on the streets and the pros steal the valid stuff and discard the illegal stuff.
2. Getting dunked on is overrated unless it's a chest to chest battle. We gotta allow room to pick things we like about sports and not be so critical all the time. Not every fan can be as die hard as we are. But maybe they will cuz they were drawn in by the action and hype of the play. Getting dunked on is a game changer at times and can bring tremendous energy to a team and the fans. We all know this happens all the time that's why some dunks are considered more incredible than others. Like the John Wall dunk really wasn't anything as it was just a rolling of the defense to play help side and the defense was a lil late. Now how about Kobe over Yao Ming? And Yao was fully aware and tried to fully defend the dunk. Now the fans lose there minds....let em. Fact is there's billions of us on this planet and only a few thousand of us can dunk. And then there are the few hundred that can do the unimaginable....respect the skill.
Just cuz Tiger Woods makes his wins look like a walk in the park at times doesn't mean joe blow can just hit up the greens and kill it. Fact is the rise of fans to the sport of basketball rose significantly around being televised and the desire to see games televised because of athletic feats like dunks.
To downplay the dunk is to hate on the shuffle moves used in football. Or the slap shot in hockey. It's a method to get that damn point past those defenders to get that win. And if any of yall have played against the pros a kid John Wall's age doing that is a marvel. They knock the shit out of college boys trying to get in the league on the regular...
Let's just each love the game from whatever aspect we love it from....
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